Selling naming rights at the Arena and now its requesting proposals to lease the golf club...all to avoid the tough decisions on whether to fund the facilities or close them, most notably the links in the Park.
Sounds easy , doesn't it....? Aside from home rule issues, is this really practical ? The City is essentially now paying someone to operate the clubhouse and there's a reason Mr. Lundy opted to try and sell to the City....It sounds like the deal has already been cut.
Will the operator get free electricity and water, no property taxes, and will an operator be able to maintain the significant insurance that will be needed.? Since this proposal is designed to circumvent using union labor with the city, are the workers on such a private course over or under the table ? And are we not undermining labor functions now the jurisdiction of CSEA ? Whose lawnmowers are used ? Who pays to repair them and who replaces them when needed ? What of the carts ? The City we hear just bought an ice machine.
Has a recent appraisal be done ? What about subsidizing course vis a vis Ives ? All the equipment needs to be evaluated ? Legal fees? What's the term of lease ? Personal guarantees and financials ?
There are a lot of. moving parts to this type of transaction.
Council thinks this is a way to get the lawns mowed for free...Not that simple.
Oh, an what of this new owner of the Wolves ? It sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made and yet Council has not approved nothing.
If the plan is to maximize return by leasing city facilities that's fine but sub market rents, free utilities, undermining unions and giving away concession opportunities while easy to do, does not address budget issues.
71 comments:
You had your chance and did nothing, old man. Sit the hell down and shut up.
This post is exactly the attitude you had as a mayor, and why Watertown fell to the wayside. It sounds like effort-let’s not bother. That’s you in a nutshell.
> It sounds like a lot of assumptions are being made and yet Council has approved nothing.
You are the only making the assumptions
It’s how you get the feeling you are still involved
And you aren’t
if the city gets a dollar a year, and avoids all that union labor to maintain the course, the taxpayers win.
Why We Have No Middle Class In America
By 8:28 AM
Let the professionals handle this. Running a dingy bar is hardly qualification to judge these matters. STFU OM
I guess we will wait and see what Jake says and if he has the intestinal fortitude to speak up although he may want to lease it cheap.
8:39am please tell who are the professionals. So STFU Stupid!
The preferred operator of the course lives in Chaumont. Sound familiar ?
He’s a Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday-Friday-Saturday-Sunday Morning Quarterback
Sell it and be out if the golf business that they have no knowledge about.
Where’s the financial illiterate Trump Slump Guy? Stupid bastard probably sold everything during the dip. Calling him a financial expert is like calling a roulette wheel a retirement planner.
Other than a history of capitulating to their demands what exactly do you know about unions?
Mowing grass at a golf course is a seasonal job, perfect for retirees which is what most golf courses do, that doesn’t need to include healthcare or a retirement package.
The Mayor is right in pointing out the complications of leasing the golf course, all of which should be considered. It is however an option, and the alternatives are either continuing to run the course at an annual loss, or to close it - neither of which is attractive.
9:03am with that thought process that would me they should sell the whole city.
Stick to short and subtle hating on the blacks and females, barkeep. Your MAGA audience can’t stay with a posting this lengthy.
This will bring about more litigation.
8:37, YOU are why we have no middle class. You gave the unions the right to $10k of the door sticker price for legacy costs while driving your Honda to your government job you retired from at 42 and then double dipped afterward.
Broken window theory doesn’t work just because you pay union wages with taxpayer money, ya dummy
There is no home rule legislation issue, and there is no concerns about subsidies. Every single lawsuit brought against the city and the golf course lost. The habitual litigator no longer has standing.
The ex-mayor has enough worry about his own volcano insurance and CO2 tanks in the basement that almost blew up. He need not concern himself with city business and the golf course…course. Of course… had he not gotten Cliff elected and explain to Lisa that she could buy it with just three people voting for it, this wouldn’t be an issue.
When the old man contracted out the crow hazing was he circumventing public unions? When he contracted out the building of his giant birdcage was he circumventing public unions? When he gave the airport to the county was he circumventing the city workers?
The city leaders heads are in the sand traps. It is inevitable that it should be closed so stop the bs.
That's ok. Easy enough to dust off all the previous litigation in which a developer lost every single lawsuit that was brought.
Damn Jeff, nothing positive going on in your life? It's a beautiful day and no vehicles have collided with your building. Cheers!
Because it’s parkland, the city must go through home rule. The media should ask Walczyk and Gray if they support the city leasing parkland and would introduce legislation. If both are against it, case closed and no leasing will happen. Get smart people.
I like how Jeff invented this conspiracy that this is being done to skirt the union. Problem is, that work is not being done by union workers. Those are summer seasonal employees, not union members. Would be helpful if you did a little research before fabricating conspiracies.
It would be the definition of insanity for the city to lease the course again. That was a different era with the good ole boys and corruption. Didn’t Slye end up working for the Judge? If this council wants to be corrupt then go ahead and lease it. Maybe the former mayor will have Blevins sue the city.
Ya dummy, 11:53?
Me?
You are the one bitching on a blog
I’m in south Florida thanks to my union looking at 92 on the thermometer ✌️😎✌️
Those who don't live or own any property in the city need to STFU.
If the city wants to lease the course, fine — but residents deserve complete transparency about whether this arrangement truly benefits taxpayers, preserves public access, and avoids recreating “GolfGate 2.0” — the same kind of below-market insider structure that existed before.
What concerns me is that City Hall still seems unable to distinguish between a poorly managed operation and a bad asset.
The golf course itself was not the problem. Under private management, it reportedly made substantial profit because the operation functioned as a complete business model:
⛳ golf
🍽 food & beverage
🏆 tournaments
🎶 events
👥 community activity
Instead of learning from that model, the city fragmented the revenue streams, retained many of the costs, and then pointed to weaker municipal numbers as proof the course “doesn’t work.”
We’ve seen this pattern before.
The refuse system was altered and weakened instead of improved. Community Choice Aggregation was never properly pursued as a long-term revenue opportunity. A $50,000 marketing initiative was approved, yet residents still wait to see a serious strategy to market the city’s assets, attractions, and economic potential.
Government doesn’t have to operate every business directly. But leadership should at least understand how successful operations actually function before dismantling them or handing them back to insider arrangements under the guise of “efficiency.”
Too often, governance has been reduced to photo-ops, proclamations, and ribbon cuttings while the harder work of long-term planning, investment, and execution gets neglected.
Residents deserve better than recycled ideas and managed decline disguised as fiscal responsibility.
— Cliff Olney
8:37 you should have studied harder in school.
Who would want their name on that? Embarrassing.
And they are pink slipping current employees yet the city website say now hiring?? Why not just put a freeze on new hires and keep your current staff??
YOU were never middle class because you either weren't qualified or didn't work towards getting a union job, 11:53. You stupid ass
Until Jackie pays her back taxes, no one cares what she says, 8:40.
Professionals that aren't part-time, right-wing radio hosts, 8:42. That's for sure.
How much was this reportedly substantial profit that the golf course supposedly made, Clifford?
Just text me the amount.
No need for you to start being transparent now.
Thank you
STFU Olney! You’re the one that got the city involved in this whole debacle!
No need at all for any more of your input.
This month Florida temps have finally exceeded your number of trips around the sun, 2:28…enjoy your autumn years and stay out of protected air space if you want to make it to Arizona temperatures age
It’s not just a dingy dive bar, it is a safe haven for old white males obsessed with trump. Just peek your head in the door and say a woman outside needs to speak to one of you who is wearing a hat, flannel shirt, is white, old, beer belly, balding, hairy back, worships trump like god, never brushes his teeth, and throws money over the bar for beer and lottery tickets constantly. All 5 guys walk outside.
“residents deserve complete transparency” like they do regarding the zoo?
Love living in a city where the hottest topics are the golf course, whether the trash pickup got moved to Thursday, the zoo’s newest goat, and a 47-part debate over school signs. Really keeps you on the edge of your seat.
You are the blind one.
Cliff. STFU you ignorant fool.
I can always tells it's one of Cliff's bloviated ramblings by the first two sentences. Then it's time to roll & scroll. He thinks pretty pictures and a bunch of $10 words are what he has to offer to return to City Council next election. Delusional
It reportedly made a profit? Good of you to finally admit you never saw the golf course's financials.
No one gives a shit what you think. Need proof? Look at your last election results.
5:12 PM - $175K annually net under Lundy and his sister the last year.
Cliff Olney
You and the mayor are full of crap, if by “complications” you mean a home rule issue. So long as the course remains open to the public, it makes no difference if its operated by contract or by city employees.
Nope. But feel free to attempt to get a judge to agree with your far fetched legal theory. Home rule would only become applicable if the general public were not allowed to use it as they have been.
“What concerns me is that City Hall still seems unable to distinguish between a poorly managed operation and a bad asset.”
What concerns me is that CliffGPT cannot distinguish that the odds of city government NOT running something poorly, is zero. The odds of the private sector running something well are less than 50/50…but that coin flip is better odds than nothing.
7:22am the public can’t use it unless it is for a fee. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
You are the stupid one, 8:57.
He never owned anything to sell off in the first place, 9:13.
First sentence, 9:20.
And if not for that, the (over)use of hypens is a dead giveaway.
Clifford doesn't know how to properly use them in a sentence, due to his GED "education".
Source, 12:16? Other than the Lundys. TIA
7:29 AM - That argument really says more about your ideological bias against government than it does about this specific asset.
Government operates successful public systems all the time:
water systems, electric authorities, public power utilities, airports, hospitals, libraries, parks, schools, sanitation systems, and infrastructure residents rely on every single day.
The real issue is not whether government can run something successfully.
The real issue is whether city leadership is competent, engaged, and willing to manage public assets properly instead of neglecting them and later declaring failure. This manager is not nor is the mayor.
- Cliff Olney
Mr. Olney - Possibly they managed to cook the books by deferring expenses and pushing revenues from the year before, but more likely they just lied on the balance sheet backed up by the NDA. Explains why there was no public disclosure, no review by a forensic accountant, and no appraisal. BTW, “annually net” can only be computed over multiple years. Questions remain for some whether collusion and fraud were involved in the purchase, but more likely just some credulous former elected officials.
This bs with the golf course needs to end one way or the other but leasing it won’t do that. Keep it open or close it but the middle will be an ongoing disaster. The council should learn by the Zoo debacle.
Reportedly.
If Jake puts in a bid it should include him paying the city back the money he screwed them out of.
Earth to Cliff, Earth to Cliff. The government is not in the business of running commercial enterprises. Why? Because most politicians, like yourself, are fiscally incompetent. What’s the old saying, “if you can’t do, teach, and if you can’t teach, run for office?” Of course you can’t run for office if the dog eats your paperwork. Moron.
8:28 doesn’t enjoy fair wages, 8 work days, holidays or job security, 401k or health insurance. He’s all for the daybreak to dawn work schedule, no time off nor vacation, work till ya die, do you chant or is there a drummer while you work to keep pace?
You mean money he screwed us taxpayers out of, 12:50.
CliffGPT you mean.
9:44- I'll have you know that his GED was with distinction. That sort of thing doesn't exist, but he has one.
The developer may never win suits but he prevailed in settlements and non competes. But now that his 6,000 txt messages partners were thrown to curb by voters, frivolous suits may not be the cash cow they were.
Not true 9:00AM
The public currently uses it in the winter.
But the bigger point is that private golf courses do not always allow anyone from the public to join their club or pay to use it. But any lease that does not allow the general public to be a customer would be against the park land laws.
There are a bunch of people in Watertown who are like Gorilla Glue because once they get on a subject they really stick to it.
Clifftard your response shows you have no idea how money works or how to use AI. The government is trillions in debt. When it “runs” airports it does do with billions in federal money. When it runs water and police it does the same with billions in federal debt.
When we talk about running the golf course we don't mean it opens and only loses a half a billion per year like an airport.
4:37 and 8:31 PM - The real question isn’t whether government should or can ever operate public assets successfully.
The real question is: Can city leadership manage those assets competently. Ours can't because of who's there managing it.
Pierce and Wagenaar are intentionally structuring the asset revenues to fail so they can later be handed back through subsidized insider arrangements. Pretty obvious.
Cliff Olney
Cliff Olney
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