Wednesday, May 11, 2016

Want To Go Public? Watertown Firefighters Say: Bring It On | WWNY TV

     Absolutely it should be a public discussion. Experience tells me there is nothing more phony than all this secrecy involving contracts. Bring out the details and let the public understand.
     Traditionally unions don't want that and that's why school districts are notorious for their secrecy on terms until its too late.
     Mayor Butler's threat is just good public policy and we'd all like to hear both sides. Our radio station has two shows and anyone is welcome to bring in their talking points directly to the public.
      Want To Go Public? Watertown Firefighters Say: Bring It On | WWNY TV 7 - News, Weather and Sports for | Local News

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

It would be fun to watch the firequeens tell the taxpayers how keeping their overtime retirement slush fund. Nothing like a corrupt tradition that has cost taxpayers millions.

Anonymous said...

Sure, they have proposed cost saving measures. But it is a temporary fix. They number of employees stay the same. If the 24 hour shift is the answer then we can save more money with less workers at 24 hours per shift.

WIN WIN

rick aldrich said...

While I do support a good, competent, fire department, I also have to be concerned as a taxpayer, about the cost of doing business. I know that you can't put a price on a person's life, but you cannot say that more people would always make the difference. Also, mutual aid, is often used, by various towns, villages, etc. Has this been discussed?

Anonymous said...

I agree with previous posts but do not be distracted by the squirrel all departments contribute to our tax burden. I would welcome a more comprehensive approach to the budget. Sick time etc. is a city wide issue even in the CM's Dept. Please stop being such hypocrites and stop this across the board. Once that is done you have credibility. If you do not shut up!

Anonymous said...

rick, you are flat out wrong. Everyone puts a price on life everyday. The only thing that we disagree on is what that price should be. In the case of the fire queens, they put a price of $8 million per year on a one in a bazillion chance.

Do you have fire sprinklers in your house? If not, then you put a price on that life they might save. Do you drive a 2016 Odyssey with optional front crash prevention? If not you put a price on the life that might be saved.

Anonymous said...

The media is having fun with this.
Lets keep in mind the real story.
1. The union has been waging a public relations war and losing for some time now.

2. Butler decided to finally respond to some of it.

3. The tax payers were already on Butler's side but now they will be even more so.

Anonymous said...


Unfortunately, I have yet to heard any specific of how a "right-sized" fire department would be staffed, financed or function. I see no real benefit to funding an understaffed and ineffective protective force any more than I want to pay for fluff or overstaffing. I want real numbers not BS.

If there is a vision for the future of fire protection lets have it - FINALLY!!!! Tell the people what you are proposing and lets get this ridiculous back and forth over with one and for all. Protect us in a reasonable and responsible way. You are costing us all money by allowing overtime to rise to unreasonable levels just to show us all how expensive things can be. This is not what we elected you to do. This is just a game, and you are playing with our money. I am sick of this!!!!! Grow up and resolve this non-sence

Anonymous said...

How is this "going public"? You guys got numbers, lets see them!

Anonymous said...

I have to laugh about the discussion as numbers of people on duty, a number of years ago there was talk of a "Public Safety" dept. on a county level, but petty differences with location and whose in charge of what, As the County of Jefferson was involved no one wanted to give up their firehalls and control: this is why we have how many depts.???? all doing the same thing, so cheaper than others, can anyone explain why a firehall has a bar? or why they have dinners?? I mean if it's a firehall and my taxes support it, where does the money go on these benefits that are held..........To buy a bulletproof vest for a City Police dog...

Lisa Adams said...

I noticed the same 3 idiots have all replied their brain dead talk. Asshat #1 @ 6:31PM you’re the same moron who always bitches about the fire department and call the firefighters firequeens. Who are you little bitch? You must have been a fire department reject who couldn’t hack being a firefighter and the way you talk about queens, are saying there are all gay and are yourself a homophobe. You are so stupid you talk of overtime retirement slush fund. Retirement is one thing, overtime is another. If you weren’t an asshat, you would know that, but your empty skull doesn’t allow for real thoughts. Everyone in the city, including the untouchable cops get retirement pay, which is a fact and the fire department isn’t the only ones who get that money, so you bitching about only them makes no sense. The overtime is directly caused by the lack of enough firefighters due to the idiot city manager cutting firefighters last go round and the previous cuts and not having enough men on at a given shift. The moron city manager has admitted by cutting more firefighters, she will RAISE the overtime and increase the cost of the budget. But you’re not capable of reading the stupid budget to see how cutting the firefighters will increase the cost, not cut cost in any way. And no puke face, the firefighters are not corrupt, that’s the cops, DA’s office, judges and lawyers.

Asshat #2 @ 6:31PM, are you the moron from #1 just posting twice and trying to play as 2 different posters? What the fire department is wanting is not a temp fix dumbass. And 24 hours shifts and cutting the firefighters is even worse than what the idiot city manager wants. But the like the prior idiot, you’re not smart enough to know that and I doubt you have ever run a business or you would know cutting staff and increasing the staff left is a disaster waiting to happen.

@ Rick Aldrich, Yes you can say more firefighters do make a difference and if you wasn’t another braindead idiot you would know that. Moron the city already has mutual aid from other departments, so you’re a supposed Watertown city tax payer you should know that. And that solves absolutely dick. A city this size cannot continue its practice of cutting the fire department every damn time and thinking they can go volunteer since the local volunteer fire departments can’t even get enough manpower for their own damn calls in their areas without getting every department from all over to show up. They sure in the hell don’t want to come into the hell hole city just because a bunch of morons want to gut the fire department and not even touch the cops budget, in fact the asshats gave them another cop which will increase the cop budget and their budget is over $8 million dollars too. You try doing their job and then maybe you can talk about the price of a person life. People like you make me want to punch you in the throat with a brick in my hands and then stomp your skull in with boots. Every last firefighter’s life is 1,000,000 times more valuable than your life is; in fact your life is worthless.

Anonymous said...

Mutual aid takes time. Look at the county issues and ask how time is important. By the time it is called and they respond, those minutes are truly a lost game when the fire keeps burning. It is one thing that doesn't wait.
Learn from past experience. If you can put a cost on that, then stop paying your fire insurance and just pay the liability. And the collision and just pay liability.. you do that because its a benefit and important item to have when accidents strike.. this is the same.. insurance.

Anonymous said...

Uhhhhh, Lisa Adams, you're wrong and you need a psychiatrist.

Rick Aldrich said...

11:51pm you are missing the point, "the cost of doing business ". Is this so hard to understand. As Jeff has said before , " we do not have a bottomless pit of money. I know what you are getting at, save your own butt.

R. J.Randall said...

My name is Russ Randall. I currently hold the position of Deputy Fire Chief.
I'm in my 27th year with the City Fire Department
I've been a City resident for 54 of my 55 year
I am not a union member. I gain no benefit from supporting
15 personnel on duty beyond having a safer home and more effective work force.
I regularly attend City Council meetings.
I participated in the last community risk assessment (approx 2004)
I would ask the readers to separate two issues: fire protection levels and terms
And conditions for workers.
Pay the firefighters min wage or $100/hr
Give them one vacation day or 50
Give them 2 sick days or 20
None of these items change the number of firefighters needed
On the fire ground in a timely manner. Guidance and advise regarding
Fire protection levels requires specifics, not generalizations.
Anyone that doesn't understand this need only look to arena concessions.
It is the front side details that will determine the effectiveness of change, not haste.
The community needs do not change. The City Council is now, and has been the
Authority Having Jurisdiction that can set fire protection levels. Councils knowledge of
The fire service is admittedly limited. Hence the study by CPSM.
The working condition argument may well create a dangerous level of fire protection
If not separated from community needs established by professional in the field or a lower level
Accepted by the community with a full knowledge of the risk involved.
Respectfully,
R. J. Randall

Anonymous said...

11:51 OMG! The poor guy who is married to you needs or should sleep with one eye open. You have severe anger issues. 'Puke Face' You have no class. And don't even try to blame it on PMS, there is medication for that.

Anonymous said...

I don't agree at all with this being public. We taxpayers elect our public officials to handle these issues. That's why we have these positions. This blog, the media, etc...has created this uncontrollable negativity. I have never lived in an area where small issues, medium important issues as well as important issues always turn into a fight. Roommate laws, arena, fire department, parks and recs, zoo's, monuments, downtown, Mercy, the list goes on and on and it always turns into an online fight. Mr. Butler is WAY off base on this. It should be kept behind doors to keep the negotiations fair and without emotion. We can pick on the big county all we want. The circus is here in Watertown and it takes place daily. I am not a fan of the CM at all, she is just way in over her head. But, she is spot on by trying to keep lids on things. Unfortunately, she will continue to be undermined by this mayor as she was her previous mayor. There is a line between transparency and sensibility. We can't find that line.

Anonymous said...

Rick, Lisa really told you....If you wasn't another brain dead idiot you would know that! Nothing like seeing how our tax dollars are wasted on public education. And she is calling you one of 3 idiots.

Apparently, Lisa has not heeded previous suggestions to apply for online English courses, but she is well versed on the Fire Department Budget.
Then again I would prefer not to have my tax dollars flushed down the toilet for any remedial classes she may think she is entitled to.

Rick Aldrich said...

Lisa Adams, you are in denial and full of hostility, the 3rd step is the acceptance of the truth. You see, I was a firefighter once, as a volunteer and professional. Sorry to break your heart. How about 24hr shifts , 24 on 24 off, 48/48 for weekends. It works, I have done it. 15 per shift x2= 30, add 20 for overhead, etc. Now you have a 50 person fire dept. So, my next question, how many people work at the fire dept? I know that it is not always pleasant, when your department is being looked at for cost cutting. And in response to the need for more, every day you wake up, there is a chance you will die. Does that mean you should have a doctor with you every minute. No, unless you can afford it. Its people like yourself, who live in a threatening, fearmongering environment, I really do feel sorry for you. A chance of having a fire, is like dying, when it's your time, you can't cheat it. Do you have any input on the rash of fires, before the election last fall. Ps: I live in Black River, look me up.

Anonymous said...

Psychiatrist 7:40? She needs a lobotomy!

Anonymous said...

Imagine that, no rebuttal from all the keyboard experts on what Mr.Randall had to say. Who'd of thunk?? A management official from the f.d. has spoken FACTS not hear say. Well let's hear it from all the people that know how the fire department should be run from a key board.

Anonymous said...

That's strange Russ, volunteer firefighters in the outskirts get along just fine with fewer than 15 men. Oh, and they don't have to pay anyone $82,611 per year to be the deputy fire chief.

Anonymous said...


1047 You are just plain wrong. The outside fire protection agencies do not get along "just fine" as many are barely able to keep up with the costs and requirements.

Volunteerism is on the decline everywhere and the fire service is no exception. Per capita the citizens of Want. are paying less than most volunteer districts and getting a lot more for their money. It is a fact, look it up.

Mr Randall is spot on with his assessment and is a very intelligent guy. The city would do well to listen to him. Thank you Russ for having the bal*s to stand up for what you believe and for the courage to put yourself out there. You know that you will be ridiculed and called names for posting here; this is what you get from a hate site. PS what he makes for a living is completely irrelevant.

Russ Randall said...

Last I checked the City tax rate was $8.10 per
1000 of assessed value. Approx 21% of that is
applied to fire protection. You do the math.
Do some research and tell me how that service
value compares to what the surrounding residents pay in fire fees
and taxes. I believe you can find the numbers on the County's website.
The figures may surprise you.
May also want to verify business insurance premiums in a community
Relative to that communities ISO rating.
The Chief Fire Officers of those surrounding communities will all
agree that if they had a constant,adequate staffing, with a response time meeting
NFPA standards, their fire losses would be reduced.
All I'm saying is do the research and have the plan. If you simply
Read the completed study it says determine the community needs and don't
Reduce staffing levels at this time. We payed for the research.
Seems interesting to me it's being ignored. I don't agree with all the study
But that point is prudent .

Respectfully,
R.j. Randall

Anonymous said...

Lisa Adams... posting at 11:51pm, and just like the last time after a night of drinking.

You must be a riot at a party!

Anonymous said...

Well said Mr. Randall, so why are you and the rest of the fire department not putting these statements and facts out in public forum like news outlets? Have not heard the fire chief saying much of anything on this subject, isn't that who should be fighting for this staffing? Maybe you need to tell your side of the story so people understand these things. Not the union, it should come from the people in charge of the department. Union facts sometimes get taken with a grain of salt. Put the facts out with data to back your side and the public might begin to understand

Anonymous said...

6:48 Thats the problem. They dont want him putting the "Official" facts out for the public. This would make them look bad and the fire department look good. He is probably on a gag order by CM who wont let them put these facts out there because it would look like he supports the union and not actually supports whats in the best interest of the city. Thats the way they play. If it looks good for the union or the firefighters, then they just let Macaluso open her mouth and say negative false things about them so it looks like they are a bunch of "grown" men who call in sick just so their co-workers can get overtime, and not because the staffing level is so low that as Mr. Randall said, that is the main reason why overtime is so high. They are thanking the council and manager for not filling the positions. They are creating the overtime and the fire department is benefiting from it. Plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

Randall will end up like Gaffney for doing what is right. Hope he finds another job.

ray lear said...

We need to demand that the HIGH PRICED talent the city hired get to a table and finish the job we paid thousands of dollars to. That's about it. It's been way to long. Get everyone at the table, get the job done! Or we should be able to take some cash off the bill. Really at this point, the regular lawyers for the city should have been able to be done with it, I would think.

Anonymous said...

When do we start paying for this. I need to sell my home ASAP. The Town of Watertown is the place to go.