Sunday, July 6, 2014

WDT: Did You Ever Think People Simply Voted for Who They Preferred ?

     The editorial is out about "buying" the district.
    Oh stop.  The results of the recent GOP primary were not driven by Karl Rove anymore than they were driven by the editorials in the Times or Post Star.
    Lots of people would like to think they can or should dictate the outcome but in the end such efforts are more a reflection of existing views than a leading indicator.
    Elise Stefanik won because she was a candidate who offered the better vision for the office and the best prospects for Republicans to win NY21.
Elise Stefanik in July 4th Parade in Hamilton County

    Republicans liked her and had tired of her opponent who had a lot of factors in his favor, not the least of which was media in the largest city in the district who created an echo chamber that totally misread the district wide mood against their preferred candidate, and I am not so sure it was against anyone as much it people were enthused over the Stefanik candidacy.
     For most, not all, in NY 21, there just was not an appetite for the same race over again. That's the theme reflected in the Rove ads and in the results through much of NNY.
     The tail didn't wag the dog. The dog wagged it's own tail.

Watertown Daily Times | Politics for a price: Super PAC tests to see how much local congressional seat costs

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well said, Mr. Mayor!

Anonymous said...

I believe your remark about there being no appetie for the same race over again is probably the most accurate assessment of the results of the primary.

As you, I don't believe anything Karl Rove, the WDT, or much of anybody else had to say on the matter really influenced anybody very much.

Whether our fatique with Matt's efforts turns out to be a good move or not, remains to be seen.

Anonymous said...

A dumber opinion piece could not have been written by Danny himself.

I love that they point out that Crossroads is a non profit. How much profit did the WDT's make in publishing that piece of drivel? None. Yet, they will deduct the ink paper, printing and distribution costs for that piece of political attack advertisement against Stefanik.

Contrast that with the good people who pool their money into Crossroads. Those people will not be able to deduct their political expenses against their income as the WDT's publisher is doing with this attack piece.

Lets be clear. The local rag has been handed off to the leftist progeny, who installed a leftist editor and wants to see a lefty such as Woolfie win.

Anonymous said...

At least the newspaper didn't blame it all on the Rove money. But you totally disregarding it shows how out of touch you are
You mentioned they had tired of her opponent. It sounds like her talking point and Rove's commercial.

Obviously negative campaigning works better when you have facts which you can portray negatively and resonates with voters. The loser campaign is one of those.

Where would we be if Karl Rove was around to label Lincoln a loser has been

Anonymous said...

But in the end nothing will change, no matter who represents us in Washington........Over the next few months we'll be bombarded with TV ads, newspaper articles, and those damn mailings, phone calls, etc. etc., Same with a State level race nothing will happen.

Anonymous said...

I am so tired of the media painting poor Matt as an innocent victim of Rove. Here's what really happened.

Two years ago, numerous PACs and well as the Republican party greatly supported Matt, verbally and financially. They actually dumped a ton of money into the race to ensure his victory. He was called one of the 15 strongest congressional candidates in the country. He was a chosen one. But when Matt had his episode in DC with his staffer there were a lot of party members and affiliates who witnessed it. People were there at the restaurant. They saw what went down. Word got out in DC circles what he really did and how he responded. But it was too late. There were no other legitamate options in NY21 who could take out Owens so they stuck it out with Matt but their frustration that such a strong candidate could squander such a great opportunity over something so foolish caused a lot of frustration in DC. His supporters felt disrespected and the campaign's foolish press release added salt to the wound. So, when 2 years later Matt decided to upset the apple cart and run again against squeaky clean Stefanik, the same people who supported him but felt betrayed in 2012 abandoned him and even fought against him. They could not and would not risk the seat for Matt again after he behaved so cavalierly in public. He is known as a "work hard play hard" guy who could not be trusted that he would exhibit poor judgment again and sacrifice the seat again. They felt betrayed in 2012 and would not let Matt destroy their chances at victory yet again.

That is the real reason Rove unprecidently attacked his own party member. The Republicans who witnessed Matt's behavior that night were mum with the press, but they spread the word of what happened amongst people who mattered within the party. They would not help a man ever again who single handledly destroyed what should have been a landslide victory in 2012. And his mishandled response was widely considered one of the biggest missteps amongst any campaign in any race that year.

Anonymous said...

John B. Johnson will you stop already. It is breathtaking the stance that the WDT has taken in double down support with your failed attempts endorsed candidate again be put forth as our Republican choice for this seat.

You rolled the dice, you lost now move on, please. I happen to be a committee person in one of the eastern counties. Throughout the race individuals within the GOP could see where when and who the people were getting behind. Your edorsement the week before the election of Mr. Doheny smacked in the face of cryonism and insider support of your preferred candidate. Much to your disappointment we and I mean the majority of the people as has been shown were interested in a far superior candidate, one that we have not seen in decades to have this opportunity to regain this seat.

Ms. Stefanik was always counseled to run a clean race by many within the different counties. Mr. Johnson, where were you as well as many elected officials with your outcry with regards to the negative, outright lies that Mr. Doheny used to slander Ms. Stefanik. It was very disheartening to see even elected Representatives never coming to Ms. Stefanik's defense with Mr.Doheny lies against Ms. Stefanik.

We were hearing about the results of the very different campaigns being run and they were totally opposite of what you and a few of the other media outlets were portraying to the public again with attempts to support your preferred candidate.

All I can say for the moment, is thank God for American Crossroads and any of the superpacs for coming in at the last minute with advertising.
Ms. Stefanik did not the have the unlimited financial means such as the millionaire Mr. Doheny to counter attack his negative advertising.
"Mistake" I cannot agree more that it would have been a mistake to vote for Mr. Doheny. That would have validated and confirmed that the media such as your publication still had any sway in changing the outcome of the election.

You still wish to have this issue fester within the GOP. I have to ask you what is the real purpose of this editorial. Clearly the GOP County Chairs minus Mr. Coon, the hundreds of committee people, and thousands of people did and will see Ms. Stefanik as being the experienced and preferred candidate instead of the minority such as yourself.

It must be gratifying for someone to have the ability of your publication to get individuals elected to office that simply have no business representing people. Well in this case it did not work out again. Put this to rest for all our sakes, the district and the lives of our fellow neighbors are far more important than your personal agenda .
Far more important issue I would concern myself is that you yourself did not found this publication but might be leading it to its demise. If you are such a poor judgement of the events and the world around you,the people you support you yourself should evaluate your place in this business.
At this time I only request that you immediately cease any and all future negative editorials regarding Ms. Stefanik, it only exposes the WDT real agenda, that was keeping the NY21 in the hands of our opposing party. Going forward the GOP had hope you could be fair and balanced but alas it does not appear to be the case.

Anonymous said...

Look both spent money and worked hard. The only way Pac money worked was if it was real close or the otherside did not spend. Both did not happen

This race was about likability and voter fatigue.

One had the first the had the 2nd case closed, give it up WDT

Anonymous said...

I cant disagree with 840s assessment but I also think Mr Roves money was well spent and had little if any influence on the outcome.
Outside pac or not its the only way an average person can contend with people like Doheny. The dirt started when Doheny and Jude Seymour attacked Ms Stefaniks credibility as a canidate . The Pac countered with what is completely truthful. Anyone care to tell where there was any lie, stretch or dirt that wasnt true(proven by the last six years). It reminded folks like Doheny in a very rough way that other people know people of influence and have friends so you better play within some controlled rules.
Me personally I dont like Doheny. I think he is a sleeze. He made his livelhood showing his total disregard for anyone but himself at the expense of thousands of people. So be it.. I just have no respect for people like that and in this day and age there seems to be all to many of them around.
This guy showed nothing but distain for the common working man and unions that represented them but still had the gall to go to these people and ask for their vote.. We gave him what he deserved a total complete humiliation...

Anonymous said...

903 Bravo. The WDT and it's odd couple partner Newzjunky will not be able to elect Doheny this year, but they can undermine Stefanik and possibly elect Woolf. For the Johnsons, they then own a Congressman, and Matt can be their choice again in 2016.

Anonymous said...

I voted for Doheny's opponent. Whoever it would have been.

Anonymous said...

Millionaires like other millionaires. Nothing new there.

Anonymous said...

How about Jerry Moore's OP-ED piece? Could have been written 50 years ago! I've got an idea: Mr. Moore, Ms. Alexander et al hop in your cars tonight and drive to Syracuse. Walk around Bellevue, Midland, West Onondaga and South Salina for a while. IF you survive unscathed (which is highly unlikely), then you can preach to be about racism. Or is it the white man's fault (after 50 years of every opportunity) that they chose to live like savage animals? Reparations? I wanna fuckin' puke!

Anonymous said...

9:00- It is amazing isn't it? I think the fact that Matt acted like what he did in DC was no big deal was what really scared the GOP. His behavior that night was epically stupid and the Republicans could not trust him not to do it again. If he was dumb enough to do something so ridiculous and obviously potentially catastrophic to his campaign when he's out in public, just imagine what other sort of hot water he could get himself into. Matt lost the 2014 primary that night back in 2012 (and needless to say lost the 2012 general election that night too). I sure it was worth it.

Middle-Class Mike said...

"Matt Doheny will be proven to be Prophettic"

As he made his concession speech after losing the Republican Primary, Mr. Doheny warned us all by saying the race had been bought for Stefanik with Karl Rove PAC money; some 800,000 dollars worth of Attack Ads swayed the election.

Mr. Doheny asked, Do you want to live in a District whose Congressional seat is bought by outside PAC money and outside interests. Clearly Elise Stefanik does! The use of such vast resources to buy Congressional seats certainly does undermine our Democratic form of government, marginalizing the voter's real interest in any election, while the packs front for Billionaires buying influence in Congress like the Koch Brothers.

How could anyone who voted for Matt Doheny vote for Elise Stefanik? There's not much in the way of this skullduggery, but you the Doheny supporter can make a difference and show you don't approve of Elise Stefaniks methods.

Mike Flynn 'Middle Class Mike'

Anonymous said...

11:24AM Middle Class Mike, I find it interesting that you would believe anything that came out of Mr. Doheny's mouth that the attack ads bought the election. You cannot deny that for months we often read your opinion of Stefanik being the better canddiate than Doheny, now what has caused you the 180 degree turn. The outside money from Karl Rove had very little influence on the results of Stefanik clobbering Doheny. You had called it two months ahead of the election that Stefanik would win by over 10 points. Well how are you going to respond when the far left outside pacs come in to support you candidate Aaaon Woolf, certainly undermining our Democratic form of government buying a congressional seat.

Like the WDT editorial your plea to the Doheny supporter to make a difference and show you don't approve of Stefanik's methods are one and the same. Accordingly I agree to 9:33, 10:12, 10:38AM we can now add to the list of sleezes Mr. John B. Johnson and Middle Class Mike. You all swim in the same cesspool, you just finish with different styles.
You should be focusing on the WDT attempting to (sway) or buy the primary for Doheny should you not. At least that is what you have been publically stating for the last four months.

Far superior thinking in this primary has been the voters wouldn't you say.

Anonymous said...

I didn't vote for Doheny. I voted against Stefanik and will continue to.

Anonymous said...

"MCM is proven to be pathetic & moronic"

Anonymous said...

11:24AM Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, you are all over the map. Get a handle on yourself, you are losing all credibility just like the WDT.

A little shout out to the Doheny voters? People are a little more intelligent than you give them credit. You need to get that little soapbox out and will have to really plead the case of Woolfie's leftist agenda.

Just how many times do you think people can be fooled by the WDT, the Dems. and yourself as to why you really wanted Doheny to win the primary.

Anonymous said...

11:59- why? Let me guess, because she lied??? Keep drinking the Koolaid Doheny fed you in the primary because voting against Stefanik is essentially a vote for Woolf. I sure hope you like high taxes and big government because that is what you are voting for.

Anonymous said...

11:59AM If you didn't vote for Doheny and you voted against Stefanik can you please clarify who you voted for in the primary? It was not a member of your own party?

So it was actually Woolfie who you voted for, well ok just admit you wanted Woolf and the Dems. to keep this seat.

Anonymous said...

11:11- that's right. It was his poor judgment that cost him both elections. And his utter inability to ever admit he ever does anything wrong. "Two old friends horsing around". Right. His entire campaign was an exercise of him digging his heels in deeper after every bad decision. "Look at me, I am a family man". My wife is an asset to my campaign". "Calling people names is an effective way to campaign". "I am proud of the campaign I have run". Ugh. I think he would have done better in the primary if he hadn't campaigned a single day in 2014. If he or his wife didn't say a single word or attended a single event. If they hadn't sent out a single negative mailer. If he just kept his mouth shut and ran off his name recognition from 2012. I think everything he did in 2014 to help his campaign actually hurt him. But I agree, the avalanche really started on that one night with that woman in DC 2 years ago.

Anonymous said...

MCM I would like an answer to 11:54 question to you if you were calling Stefanik's win two months before the primary by over 10 how can you say the super pac ads that were placed in the last 2-3 weeks before the primary had any bearing on the outcome?

Anonymous said...

Mike, 12:17 is right. You show such a lack of conviction for the candidates you support you lose all credibility. You trumpeted the virtues of Stefanik for the last 4 months, but now you do nothing but insult her every chance you get. It's remarkable.

And you wonder why people think you are a joke..

Anonymous said...

Matt called Elise Stefanik a Wash. DC insider, and now PAC money directed by the RNCC big money men has bought the seat for one of their own puppets. Elise Stefanik is Wash. DC's puppet and Paul Ryan will pull the strings. I voted for Matt, but Elise Stefanik is not going to be forced down my throat by Wash. DC.

Anonymous said...

Well I think MCM is right, it would be hypocritical to vote for Elise Stefanik if you voted for Matt Doheny in Primary. That's like turning a blind eye to what you believe in.

Anonymous said...

1:28- so you prefer a democrat in office over Stefanik, who has almost the identical platform to Doheny, the guy you voted for? Why? Because she's worked in Washington before? That seems rather foolish but the beauty of this country (or weakness, depending on your point of view) is that you are free to vote for whatever candidate you want for whatever reason.

You could vote for Woolf because you don't want women in powerful positions. You could vote for Woolf because you once dated a girl named Elise who dumped you. You could vote for Woolf because you once got a speeding ticket in Willsboro. Whatever the reason, people can do whatever they want. I just hope that most people look at the platforms of the candidates and vote for the one they prefer as the MAJOR factor in their voting decisions. What a novel concept!

Anonymous said...

9:00 you don't recAll that Doheny's race was in an Obama year and he beat Obama by a mile. However, cottails did have an effect.

Noone considered that he blew the race.

Anonymous said...

1:28PM Just call a spade a spade. Now you are calling out the RNCC big money men that has bought the seat for one of their puppets.

As I recall in 2012 well over a million was spent by Crossroads and the RNCC big money men when it was Doheny, was he not a puppet then. Why he was begging to be included in the circle of big money men of DC when he signed onto Norquirst Tax Pledge. Look how far that got him.

Just admit it, Doheny will or shall I say Matt since it appears you might be more personally involved with Doheny than you are alluding to you are sorry you got fooled once again. Take a good look at yourself and ask why you would want an ethically challenged individual to represent you.

Do you not think there might be someting a bit off with your moral compass?

Anonymous said...

2:15pm do you know who is poster1:28, sounds like you might have an inkling. All shallow reasons you point out why the individual would vote for Woolf.

Quite a few shallow people around these days.

Anonymous said...

Jeff, Intersting that one notable individual has not weighed in on this topic, that being Don Coons.

As a County Chair he should have immediately issued a statement this AM saying the race has been won and as someone posted earlier Doheny was a previous candidate that received outside pac money in his previous campaigns. That the timing on the pac money ultimatrly did not have any effect on the race, etc. etc. That is what a County Chair should have issued or at least someone from the committee should have seen fit to do so. Coon should not let the outside media, especially the WDT write an editorial and let it play out there.

In my eyes he is no longer qualified to be the GOP County Chair and should voluntarily step down. Coon should never have been as involved in Doheny's campaign to the extent he was. We need new blood here and we need it immediately.

Don and the Committee People who are really not supporting the GOP party please step down for everyones's sake.

Anonymous said...

Mike, Could you please provide the source where Mr. Doheny asked the public if they wanted to live in the district that was bought by pac money and outside interest, clearly Elise Stefanik does.

Please provide the source. All I saw in that concession speech was a sore loser, again, and blaming his loss on someone else and taking no responsibility for his poor strategy of running the same old campaign that we have seen for five years now. I did not hear him asking the voters if they still wished to live in the district?

I think you are losing it Mike, seriously rethink each and every post you issue going forward.

Anonymous said...

It might be a good idea to admit up front that Elise Stefanik is in reality a bought and paid for lobbyist, now working for the Wash. DC insider establishment to push a Ta Party agenda. That would also mean you admit the seat is going from Rep. Bill Owens Centrist views, and taking a hard right into the dark recesses of Conservative dogma.

We don't need Elise Stefanik to screw up Congress and make it even more dysfunctional than it already is now.

Anonymous said...

Don Coon and the Watertown media are looking to sink Stefanik. Most Republicans support her but those Doheny dead enders have an agenda.

Anonymous said...

2:50 - actually, I disagree. A lot of people think Matt blew that race. He had everything going for him. Money. His money and outside money. All three lines. A strong anti-Obamacare sentiment and thus an anti-Owens sentiment. Huge national support. Cantor was up here. Pataki was up here. Yet he still failed. I strongly believe the turning point was his affair that was caught on camera (followed by a huge wedding that many thought to be more of a political event than anything else).

Many people believe that Obama won in NY21 because a lot of Republicans stayed home on voting day. They knew their vote for Romney wouldn't matter in the NYS electoral college and people were SO disappointed in Doheny they just couldn't stomach voting for him. So they didn't vote at all. It's a sad statement but I know it's true, I just don't know how many people actually felt that way. So rather than attributing the Doheny defeat to Obama and a big movenent to blue, you could attribute the Obama victory in NY21 to apathy or even a distaste for Doheny.

The real test will be this election to see if Stefanik can win. Then the argument that the district "isn't so Republican anymore", as Doheny said, isn't quite as strong. Then if the Republicans hang onto a seat in a presidential election year, particularly one with a strong democratic presidential candidate, then that argument goes up in smoke and we are left to believe that Doheny lost in 2012 solely because Doheny wasn't good enough. That certainly seemed to be the case in 2014 at least.

rick aldrich said...

Mike, mike, mike, mike ,mike ; I am still waiting for an answer about the Virginia race , where millions of dollar money, lost to a couple hundred thousand dollar money... It's not the amount of money, but the work ethics and persona of the candidate. I will vote for a worker, any day...Because, that tells me something about a candidate. I know that you and your pals will resort to calling me names and so-forth, for believing in people who choose to work for things in their life, as opposed to being handed to them. But, that is the way I am, and you will never change that...

Anonymous said...

There is nothing under the sun that the established plutocracy covets more than a hapless naive tool like Ms. Stefanic and her clueless circle of lost lemmings.

Anyone who believes that Karl Rove and his corporate masters don’t’ have the Girl Scout attached to a short leash and isn’t out to hoodwink the rest of us, please call...

1-800-BUY-BRIDGE.....

I have a helluva deal for you!

Anonymous said...

I don't care if Rove gets credit for it or not. We are Taxed Enough Already. Stefanik is the girl we want. Nay...womyn we ant...she be 30 now!

We don't want Phish burnt out giving us carbon taxes, open borders or sugar taxes. King ACORN is not about korn it is about high fructose corn syrup. Leave our Coke and Pepsi alone Woolf-man! Better yet, bow out because you are gonna get spanked. Your librul idiocy handed down to you by your professor parents might play well in Brooklyn, but it don't play with us woodchucks. Around here communism is frowned upon.

Anonymous said...

Phish burnt will have no power in Congress, while Stefanik will be supporting Boehner, McCarthy,Ryan and company. The RINO establishment Rockefeller/Bush wing of the republican party is in favor of a cozy crony relationship with big business, is anti small business, is anti individual freedom, is pro big government, is pro illegal immigration and anti American worker. Anyone who believes Stefanik means what she says is a fool. She won't be getting my vote.

Anonymous said...

7:48 to 9:00 am,

Thanks for the info. Pretty well explains the dynamics of the behind the scenes part of the campaign, doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

I voted for Doheny in the primary....will NOT vote for Stepfordwiveanik in the General.....

Anonymous said...

6:04AM Has the WDT and Don Coon embarrassed themselves enough, the laughingstock of the entire district, just digging their holes a little deeper.

The WDT used Coon III and Doheny for the set up and Coon still doesn't know that it's basically over for our county.

Get a grip Coon, will you.

Middle-Class Mike said...

ANON 5:00 PM the source was Matt's concession speech - where he said just that -were you even listening to him? MCM

Anonymous said...

1:38PM I did see it on TV and those words did not come out of his mouth.
Doheny never did say that we shouldn't send Stefanik down to DC, review the clip again please.

Mikey, can you please stop with embellishments to the speech, this is a classic example of your usual spin, nice try again to twist and revise facts. You have never answered the question of your source of where Stefanik ever filed to become a lobbyist either.

You are losing it buddy!

Anonymous said...

ANON 6:15 maybe you should quit trying to change the subject. You're obviously rattled! Doheny said, "Do you want outside PAC money coming in here and buying our district Congressional race for the Wash. DC Insider establishment? He went on to warn everyone that that's exactly what PAC money is doing with Karl Rove & Crossroads for Elise Stefanik. He's right in terms of Stefanik -Rove bought the election and Doheny supporters should refuse to support her period.

Mike Flynn 'Middle Class Mike'

Anonymous said...

7:23PM Admit it Mike, rewatch and listen to those words, did not come out of his mouth. For if he did he and his sidekick Don Coon are now and will foreever be washed up.

Please stop stretching the truth, you have now lost all credibility, something we have been saying for years you never had.

You are just going on and on like the WDT and clearly show you are a sore loser as well.

Very interesting to all that you were touting for over 4 months how Stefanik was the better candidate.

Again, how are you going to respond when the outside superpacs come in for Woolf. boxed yourself in!

Anonymous said...

Mikey, you are so full of crap. That is not what Doheny said. Were you even listening. You are embellishing and adding to the telling of the event to match your opinion of things.

Here's what Matt said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ZYqB3O7gQ

Middle-Class Mike said...

ANON 2:15 PM you lied I didn't:

“Matt Doheny was speaking to Karl Rove and Crossroads PAC Money in Concession Speech”
I want to share my thoughts our basic theory we’d knock on doors – we went right to people. I wanted to say we’ve gotten a look into the future. Where Super PAC’s are going to come in and play a role in Congressional primaries, not in the traditional way, like in a way where you want to shore up a seat, or help an incumbent. This is different, what we’ve seen here is we were outspent in ADS $6.00 or $7.00 to one. (Karl Rove and Crossroads spent 800,000 that’s what he’s referring to.) And it obviously made the difference, it just did, it made the difference. It’s time people understood that when you’re running at this level it’s not enough to talk to your County Chairman (Coon III) or organized labor, or people on the ground. And the reality is we were outspent 7-1, and couldn’t make it up on the ground. My opponent (Elise Stefanik) had a good night and Karl Rove had a good night. And that’s just how it shakes out, and whether you like it or not that is the reality of politics at the national level.”
Matt Doheny –Republican Primary Concession Speech.

Mike Flynn ‘Middle Class Mike’

Anonymous said...

MCM@ 5:33

You are so full of manure! This isn't the first political campaign PAC money was spent on. And the truth is it didn't tip the balance in this primary race. Elise worked her butt off getting out to meet the people on their turf and the folks saw how sincere she was about running. She also had the courage to start her run challenging the incumbent. Doheny swooped in like a vulture only after Owens announced his retirement. That's the character of a coward. No way did Crossroads affect a 20 point win and a clean sweep of all the counties in the district. Like it or not, Elise's character is what won her the primary. You are the one stretching the truth, not me. No reason to call me a liar just because YOUTUBE proved you to be wrong. Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

Marr Doheny said what he said 10:28 AM, PAC money bought it for Stefanik. Why are you lying about what Matt said - oh yeah it's an inconvenient truth for GOP and Stefanik that's why you're lying about it. Doheny supporters are going to pass Elise Stefanik up in th ethousandss.

Anonymous said...

4:13PM Who gives a rip about Doheny supporters anymore. You will continue to keep this district on the down and trodden path and all for what. What a sorry example we are here in Jefferson.