The change in the zoning code passed last night really is unenforceable and the three Council members voting for it knew that. The passage of the zoning code change seeks to limit what living arrangements can occur in a neighborhood zoned "residential A".
The measure was pushed by former school board member and neighborhood activist Debbie Cavallario who worked everyone on the Council very hard (except for me, since it was known I wasn't voting for it). Rather than incur the wrath of Mrs Cavallario in future elections, the majority voted for a measure that while offensive to some, really won't change anything.
I felt bad for the nice young man who is the neighbor and a city employee. He was caught in the media coverage of his neighbor's crusade, even though Mrs. Cavallario said she didn't want Mr. Hartman prosecuted and that he is not a troublesome neighbor.
So just what was this matter all about ?
Neighbor Vs. Neighbor: What's A Family? | WWNY TV 7 - News, Weather and Sports for | Local News
47 comments:
I would think driveway space would be a big factor into the multiple people with vehicles residing in a boarding house situation.
I personally wouldn't care who was living at my neighbor's house, but I would care if their cars were parked in the street all the time. It's a hazard and a nuisance.
It's about a woman who thinks she has higher than thou ideas of how people should live. The world is full of them right now, and the number is growing.
Ms. Cavallario needs to get a hobby. She is making an ass out of herself. The "family patrol" will be appearing on your street soon. How to hell is enforcement possible with a law like this?
I wouldn't care who was living on my street as long as their weren't any Italians. Not everyone loves the smell of that crap they cook, or the looks of those tacky yard globes and cement Jesuses they all have.
But then again...sometimes I think I should just put up with other people, even if I am put off by their activities, noise, smells, color choices, decorating ideas. But that's just me.
I have been past there many times since I grew up in that neighborhood. The house and yard are always kept neat and tidy, I don' t care for the way Cavallario's have their landscaping but it is all a matter of personal opinion. I do no understand why the zoning was changed since there is no way to enforce it, I do not agree with the change anyway but why waste the time? It seems like the council was 'bullied' by Cavallario, she is trying to bully her neighbors and doing all the things we are teaching our children NOT to do and the council went along with it because of future elections if I read this right. Maybe we need a new council.
This is not only ridiculous but almost offensive. Who's right is it to dictate where people can or cannot live based on if they are "family" or not. In an area like Fort Drum sometimes the closest thing to "family" someone has are the people they are serving with. Ms. Cavallario of all people should know and be sensitive to this since she works in the human services area. She even said that he was not a nuisance... so why all of this rigmarole? Apparently nothing better to do...
LOL! So now we have the communist municipality of Watertown overseen by 3 gutless councilmembers. Glad I don't live within the city limits anymore. The gang of 3 should be forced to enforce their silly mandate.
Driveway space IS the issue. To see these large out of state pickup trucks and the like parking on front lawns in these neighborhoods is trashy to say the least.
Is there a law for that? This ain't Oklahoma, y'all.
Seems to me Watertwon would be a lot better off if it WAS more like Oklahoma.
Maybe the City Council should have had a look at her abstract to see what it said about this type of issue. I believe it is all spelled out in black and white right there without having to go as far as it has. A lot of people are bashing her and rightfully so but I also feel the council played a major role in all this publicity. The abstract in that area says you cannot rent your home, there are many homes on the first block of Thompson that are rental income property and nobody has pitched a fit about that. A local flower shop owner is one of the ones who has had rental right next to him with some horrific neighbors but I never saw that go to the council and have a special zoning passed. Like I said, check out the abstract before passing such frivolous changes just to appease someone.
Boy council is saving the city one dumb law at a time there no way to enforce this law and it infriges on peoples rights.. But all that matters is that Jeff Smith got 100 old people votes next election.
I agree, 9:49. That's why God made garages. I always park my vehicles inside. My neighbor, OTOH, looks like a used car lot. Trashy is right!
Boy, you'd think with all this outcry against her neighbors, that they were black. Geez, those were the "Good Old Days", weren't they, when one of 'those' familys moved next door. Think of the children! Think of the property values!
It's like that scene in Blazing Saddles, when they old lady gives the sheriff a pie, but doesn't want anyone to know. Cavallario says her neighbors are OK enough, but we wouldn't want any more of "them' moving into the neighborhood.
A bunch of soldiers co-habitate in the house? Does she have something against the military? Where's our resident military liason to the community, Col. Plummer (Ret) and his take on the issue? What does Housing on Fort Drum have to say about the issue? The CG? Or, for that matter, another frequent Hotline caller/retired military guy who tends to chime in and thinks he knows a lot about everything.
Maybe, if it's a matter of an inconvenience to one family from another, we should boycott anything with the name Cavallario on it.
The guy is running a boarding house, plain and simple! It is a business. I wouldn't want to live next to a frat house and that is what is going to happen.
Nice try 9:49, but they already have no parking in the yard laws in the COW.
Does Cavalariho have a Jesus-on-the-half shell in the yard? She should have more facts and proof before sounding off.
9:47, 8:56 are right on it. I agree. Let's have the three that voted for this nonsense go door to door and see who is sleeping with whom, then consult a City Relationship Coordinator as to whether they fit Cavallario's VISION of what a family is. If they do, then all will be well. If not, they can sign up to Cavallario's special needs program (see tax avoidance van driving Watertown streets)and get counseling as to how to become an acceptable family in the eyes of The Great Mrs Cavallario.
And by the way, is Mrs C's neighborhood zoned for business? That politically correct sham of a business of hers should not be allowed to exist in a residential neighborhood.
Theyre not Jesuses. They're Marys and She shouldn't be in a bathtub. However, some of the masonry is good work. Yo, its pasta time. If it aint Irish its "crap"
Some people like to live like hillbillies with their vehicles spilling out into the street. Go live outside the city where there is more room to grow your "family".
Amen 4:16. I can't believe all these yahoos who have garages, but have so much crap in them they have to park their trucks all over the yard. Nothing makes a neighborhood look worse.
This is the new Amerika. Dictating how others are supposed to live has become fashionable, among LIBERALS! What have we become?
And our politicians have become little Nazis. How is it that three of our people could be convinced that this law is reasonable? I am very disappointed. This is not the country I grew up in.
If Mrs Cav is a neighborhood activist, there's no limit to the power she could wield in the future. We have presidents whose only experience was in community organizing. I don't know whether to be excited or terribly, terribly afraid. Time to buy stocks in ADDHDDT treatment vans.
"If it aint Irish its "crap""
Fixed it for 'ya...
If it's Irish it tastes like "crap.”
Watn city council is gutless; no if's , and's , or but's ,about it.Some should not even be there.
All this posters here really don't know how it is to live next to a Section 8 house rental, with livelong welfare recipents and drug dealers living and frequenting theire.
And to the most cynicalPosters here on the blog I hope they will get a taste of it.
Cars spilling out in the street is the last of our problems in my neighborhood.
They park in my driveway or in front, their is drug business to all ours of the night in this befor quiet neigborhood.
They wait in front of till some one runs out and delivers the drugs.
This house rented since now over two years to a so called "family" with offically 5m but sometimes 8 to 9 till up to 12 children,staying in the house and besides the parents at least two to three more young couples or young people, at the time and also frequented by people fresh out of drugjail.
This house is a three bedroom house with only one bathroom.
The children running unsupervised and neglected all summer, till it gets dark.
This is a welfare generational family, where I guess nobody worked a day in their live, except maybe under the table.
The Child Protection office don't seem to care either..
The police is in the house at least once a week, they know that the"Parents" are drug atticts. The members of the family where in the WDT Daily Times mentioned at least five times now for driving with out a license, stealling at big retailers, drug offences and so on.
The cildren running all over my yard and trashing it. The garbage this people throw out in the backyard is spilling over in my
driveway and disrespecting my "private property". signs. Nothing seems to help, they just dont care, which also shows when they have sreaming matches and fights at 3 AM and their dogs running around wiht out a leach every day.
I feel threatened and strest out in my own home and backyard.
The peace and quietness is gone.
So yes it is a good incentative from Misses Cavalliaro.
I hopoe this zoning law will be enforced in curcumstances like this.
And all the posters here, will change their mind when more Section 8 and problem families will have rentals, thanks to long lists and greedy, uncaring landlords, in former quiet neigbor hoods and their property values will be destroyed.
The neighbor on the other side of the street tried to sell his nice house all summer with out any sucess, thanks to this people. How in his right mind wants to move next to a hous like that. anyway.
The Section 8 housing destroying former good neighborhoods is an ongoing trend for special in the south, as I was reading.
People who know the damage this kind people are doing got out and sold their houses before the neighborhood was destroyed and the homevalues under water.
Btw. this is not predjudice, this is experience.
I don't understand all these drama queens(anon 6:42) crying about this not being the America they grew up in blah blah blah. These zoning laws were put in place probably fifty years ago, if not more. Soooo, how has this not been the America they grew up in? They are either 90 years old, or more likely have no concept of history and are just regurgitaing soundbites they hear on Fox and Hannity about the supposed 'loss of freedom'. This woman is probably a pain in the ass no doubt, but by the same token, the guy should have known about the zoning stipulations when he bought the place. It's funny that the same people crying about the shabbiness of the city are the same people defending this guy who has apparently broken the zoning regulation, which opens the door to crappy neighborhoods. You can't have it both ways.
ANON 6:42PM
So now the Mayor and the City Council are being compared to Nazi's by you for passing this zoning code change? This is what happens when a simple zoning code change takes place in the City of Watertown, you get called a Nazi by someone who is in love with calling people Nazi's and should be on Meds.
Sorry you have to put up with this S--t Jeff, it makes me puke. Even though you didn't vote for the change this time, next time he'll call you a Nazi for something else, because he flat out hates government period.
MCM
MCM
Oh to judge is bliss
The zoning laws regarding the limit of 4 boarders in district “A” have been on the books since the end of WWII. This gentleman knew the laws and was within the law as it was written. The city council continues to vote for changes restricting and remove the rights of city residents. This is what is making this city “not the city I grew up in”. People are willing to talk through the anonymity of the web. Sadly only a few stood before the council to speak up stating that our laws should be left unchanged. This was well advertised by the Watertown Daily Times and the TV stations. It only took 15 minutes for everyone to talk and the council to vote. For everyone that can not believe this passed there is just one question for you. Where were you? If you are not willing to stand up for your rights and those around you expect these rights to continue to vanish. Your council members were given a petition with 80 signatures asking for this change. They did not have a petition against the change. Only three people speaking against the change at the council meeting is a week display of public opinion.
It's all fun and games until one of your neighbors' "family members/boarders/guests" winds up lost and drunk and asleep in your living room because they accidentally entered the wrong house.
9:53 is now comparing military to "livelong welfare recipents and drug dealers". Well done. That's exactly the type of attitude that makes Watertown look like it's filled with a bunch of hayseed Gladys Kravitz', poking their nose into everyone's business. As far as someone knowing about laws that have been on the books for 50 years, I dare anyone to pour through every obscure (perhaps antiquated) law that's on the books before they so much as make a move. You'd probably be surprised how many laws you break every day that don't pass the common sense test.
12:21 I voted for the two people that voted against this stupid law. And I do what I can to get the others not elected. I don't really care to show up at the meeting and be ignored.
Mike don't you support the troops? Sometimes the boys don't want to live on post. So they rent a half a house and get as many guys in to pay the expensive city rent. Why is that a crime Mike? The same hold true for some kids getting out on their own today MIKE! They have little to no money left over after eating. So they have to go into a plane to pay the rent. That means extra people. The more people means the rent can be shelled out on time. Simple MIKE!
Why do you know it all?
Sure the house in question should have tried a little harder to make it work for the lady next door. But, how do any of us know they didn't try? Some people are old school kings of the hood and care nothing about kids. Everyone needs a place to live MIKE!
Again, why do you know anything about this? I believe you don't. You just stick your nose into everything.
So if a guy owns a house in a Residential A neighborhood and his girlfriend moves in with him they are breaking the law?
Bullshit!
Drug dealing does not always happen in a run-down home or neighborhood; it also happens in some of the "richest and classy" homes.
8:45 AM,
I think you are the same poster who accused me in the other thread about" Home Prices still right up there", off being biased against the militaery.
So I answer you again:
First I have now I Idee how you read out of my post that I compare welfare recidents with militaery.
The neighbors I was writing about, as you could read are livelong welfare recipents who never worked a regulary job to pay taxes , a day in their lives and never will. They are also a generational welfare family.
Could it be that you are a little paranoid and read hostility against the militaery in everything?
So I set it straight again:
My husband is a purpleheart decorated comebat vet. Our daughter is married to a soldier.
My stepsons are both in the militaery, one in the militaery police, both with multiple combat tours in Afghanistan and Irak.
So that should clear it up.
And again I did not grow up in Watertown, just live here in this area, the last couple of years.
The 3 amigos are at it again! Wake up folks. These 3 are the ones that kicked out Mary. Looks like the city is being taken over by the gang of 3. Before long we'll all be requried to have solar panels, we'll be re-named to Burnsville, and all of our money will be required to go through Community Bank.
@8:45 AM
Second post to you:
I had to informe my self first who Gladys Kravitz even is, because Iam not in to soap opera culture.
So after I know now .I would say the Gladys Kravitzes in my neighborhood are the people
I wrote about, because they trash my property and violating my property rights, even caught them looking in our kitchen window.
And no I don't compare Militaery to Welfare people or Drugdealers.
Even I know from a friend who was working as a CID Agent, that they have their problems with drugs and drugdealers in Uniform too.
Not all Militaery are saints.
@Rick aldrich:
Exactly, and that is what I am warning about, nice neigborhoods can be easily destroyed with one house rented to the wrong people and the entourage they bringing with them, b
1:41. Please try not to be so dense. This is not about family or girlfriends at all, this is about a guy who wants to turn a single family residence into a boarding house. Period. If the Codes people had any interest in doing their jobs the issue would be dead.
Mikey, here's that job you've been looking for. You can sneak up on people with your brown coat and glasses, hunched over so you can blend in with the bushes, then see if they are living within the City definition of A FAMILY. And yes, you are our best example of a Nazi thinker here in Jeff Co, so you'd be the best at this kind of thing. You could even come up with criteria of your own, males/females, straight/gay, Christian/Jew, Polish/Italian, military/civilian. Then use your massive experience to come up with a formula to report to Council as to levels of compliance. You could even hide in the closet, and report directly to Czar Cavallario herself. This is the best opportunity to come your way yet. And I don't even think there's a Civil Service standard for the job. You're in. Be happy. Government pension. Maybe even a FreeCar to drive around it. It would have to be something German, disguised with ADHD stickers.
The NY Court of Appeals has considered whether a municipality can restrict the number of unrelated persons living together as the functional equivalent of a natural family, while allowing an unlimited number of related persons to reside together. In Baer v. Town of Brookhaven, 73 N.Y.2d 942, 540 N.Y.S.2d 234 (1989) the Court of Appeals held that it cannot.
That made me smile 11.23. Thanks i needed it, seeing I look like the man. Thank God i don't think the same way. i would walk into the river.
Cat Rancher:
You're being stupid dude, I'm against what the City Council did when they voted to change the zoning code and I feel this is absolutely wrong headed and said so on 'Hotline' when the Mayor asked me about it.. What I was commenting on is no matter how you feel about it, no one on the Council should be called a Nazi. Try getting it right once in a while, and shut your own trap until you can.
MCM
If you were like mikey, Catman, you wouldn't have to worry about walking into the river. You'd be able to just walk right across the top of it, imparting knowledge to the fishies. Look at that two ways, either you'd be an omnipotent being, or as we say, sh#t floats.
Have a good night, CatRancher.
O I know so well.
Mike I understand you walk the line for both sides in this. Yes you don't like the fact that your pets voted this way. That's all you don't like. Your pets made you look bad.
I don't think Nazi Mike. I think stuck up people who really don't understand the fact that family money gave them the ability to have a 50s still home style. Not everyone has the money to fall into that life still anymore.
I never said you were for it, just that you seem to think no one here has the right to think different from you and your pets.
To top it, you have no paddles in the fight. I at least have some reasons for caring about this. I like people, the common person. You just want to tell them what to do. Not help, just what Uncle Mike thinks should be their life.
Cat Rancher, you do realize your comments are a product of your over active imagination and have no basis in reality, right? Here’s an idea… lay off the cat fumes, they are adversely effecting what little brains you have left.
Saw plenty of vehicles parked on their lawns today in the COW. Looks more like the projects than Oklahoma. Enforce the law please.
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