This article in Firehouse Magazine isn't exactly true but there is no doubt the Watertown Fire Department is being proactive in telling the world something was taken from them that wasn't.
Building inspections are done by the Code Enforcement Office which happens to have two firefighters assigned to it. They are trained and authorized to issue citations that can be prosecuted. There was an April 17, 2012 letter from the then city manager to halt unannounced courtesy inspections on grounds I won't go into here. It was indeed done on the way out the door, but the two succesive managers have affirmed support for the action, which actually occured some years ago.
In fact, the current city manager has offered to create a separate "mapping" program in which the Department can visit places of public assembly with the prearrangement of the property owners. No one disputes the advantage of being familiar with the turf. In fact the manager has met personally with the various battalions to establish a rapport.
She has also outlined her take on the upcoming city budget, which is really what this may all be about. We would be glad to discuss that topic with anyone, including Firehouse Magazine.
Watertown Firefighters Ordered to Stop Inspecting and Pre-planning
45 comments:
I wouldn't say "no one" disputes it. I will go on record disputing it. Inspecting thousands of homes and businesses once per year could not possibly make the fire department at large "familiar with the turf" enough to provide any significant safety advantage.
After a while all the houses you go into look the same. Largely because they are the same. You can guess the insides pretty accurately, from the curb.
And that's not even taking into account that firefighters aren't exactly the guys that get the best grades on memory tests, if ya know what I mean and I think ya do.
Americana Pickers was on last night and one segment was in upstate NY where they bought an old fire box station thing and it came from Watertown NY.
1906 Was the suspected date of instal. They used a Morris code dialer inside and we apparently had them wired on the streets here in watertown.
Bout time this practice of firefighters playing codes officers has come to an end. Myself and other business men have ben harrased by these men posing as codes enforcers.
As a business person in this city for many years I welcome the firemen to inspect my business for safety issues as they have a couple times a year for as long as I remember. It is for the best interest of myself and my patrons as well as neighboring businesses. Arent our taxes paying for these guys to be on duty 24/7? Why not utilize the manpower we are already paying for to do this job? I have ran businesses in other cities and the Fd always does the inspections. I dont see what the problem is?
"Unannounced courtesy"? I don't understand that concept.
Its been 25 years since a fire station was closed. 'bout time, don't you think, mayor ?
I looked it up on Fultonhistor.com and found that the city council was debating removal of the fire call boxes in 1967 because they were only used three times in a year and two of the three were prank alarms.
I wonder if the firefighters were dram queens back then and cried when they pulled those fire call boxes? Or was that back when they hired men as firemen? Or maybe they dinnnit care 'cus they didn't lose any overtime when they were pulled?
6:08 your story is a good one. But most of us live outside of the city and do just fine without these inspections. That's why out of a population of 120,000 in the county, it is less then 25% of you that live in the city but disproportionately go on bended knee to Albany and Washington to get more than your share of grants and free$tuff.
If you are a business owner and have a problem with "unannounced inspections" as the mayor put it sounds like you might be trying to hide something. This is not only for the safety of firefighters but also the employees of these businesses and the general public. Do these businesses realize that our ISO rating will change and that their insurance premiums will drastically increase? I understand that the fire dept only inspects the exteriors of one and two family dwellings, and common areas of multi family dwellings. New firefighters need to be aware of building layouts, mechanicals, fire suppression systems , and any potential hazards.
In reference to "Inspecting thousands of homes and businesses once per year could not possibly make the fire department at large "familiar with the turf" "...... this is the problem! The public is not totally informed in what the FD does. They do not go in residential homes. They did inspect the common areas of dwellings with more than three units. And they did go in commercial buildings, but the owners had the right to tell them no.
The FD had been doing these inspections and the code department was not only aware of their work, but used their info to file their reports. In response to firefighters posing as code enforcers, they were all trained and willing to help keep this city, and themselves, safe.
As far as being harassed.....if by that you mean because they came into your business and found a violation, and then asked you to take care of it, and comply with the law, then I guess you were. You are also very selfish if you don't like the idea of someone making sure your customers and neighbors are safe when they enter your establishment. Only people who would say no are people who have something to hide. Also, are you aware the insurance policies on businesses in the city are based on an ISO rating? Are you also aware that the cities current rating is a 2 because the FD did fire inspections. And again are you aware that this rating is now going to drop and commercial insurance premiums will with out a doubt go up?
And as far as a fire station closed.... A firefighter is a job that is never appreciated until your the one that has to dial 911. You may say close a station, but when your the one that needs help and the response time is lessened and you suffer a greater loss, you will reget saying that. The stations arent just there because they want another one randomly placed, they are there to reduce the response time and be able to get to you quicker.
In all due respect Mr Mayor,the public and I feel the City Manager and the Counsel all need to be further educated on exactly what the fire dept did and why they want to keep doing it. It does not make any sense to me why they cant continue to do what they have been doing for nearly 70 years. Its good for them, its good for the city and its good for the tax payer.
As a taxpayer in the City of Watertown, I personally wrote to each council member and the Mayor on August 29th of 2012 with concerns on this issue. I received a single response from the Mayor that did not directly address my concerns but rather warned of overstepping my role as a City employee. 50 years of living in the City, I know well what happens when someone questions Councils authority. I have no doubts some will want me fired for expressing my opinion as a taxpayer or speaking while holding a government position. As a firefighter there is an acceptance that you may face injury or death while protecting the public. Risking ones job to ensue public safety pales in comparison. It's about the greater good.
This is an issue regarding public safety and the most efficient and economical way of providing. Opinions will vary with regard to how this is accomplished. But, when we ask our public employees to have education in a specific field , then ignore their professional opinion, something needs to change. As I'm always willing to learn, I would welcome the opportunity to hear council express to the public their reasoning behind the removal of the fire departments authority to enforce the fire code and how they arrived at their decision.
Because while being familiar with a structure gives firefighters another tool in the toolbox and is necessary, the ability to enforce the fire code reduces taxpayer cost by decreasing overtime. If this Is about taxpayer dollars, our firefighters should have the authority to enforce the fire code.
It's telling so many have an opinion but so few are willing to sign their post.
Respectfully submitted,
Russell J. Randall
150 Charles St.
Right you are 845, But the VFD spend just as much on equipment and they are staffed with WFD workers who volunteer to be there.
So if the f.d. can't enforce codes while on a call who does???? Must be codes department is staffed 24/7??? If codes isn't staffed 24/7 is this not creating unnecessary overtime for the tax payers? Please explain Mr. Mayor.
So if this has been the law since 2005 and the fire department has been doing inspections since the change until now, how come somebody didnt say anything till now? Didn't they inspect your bar? So you must have known? Didn't reports have to be turned into the state? Who signed off on those? Must be somebody at city hall was asleep at the wheel or else is this just a political game being played? Would love to hear your answers to these questions.
More drama queen crap comments from firefighters looking for overtime. Hey. here's an idea for the selfish firefighters that want more overtime...move into the city and run for the city council seats that have no challengers! Then you can vote for every pedantic useless code law and inspection you want to.
You can right citations for those fire extinguisher that haven't been "inspected" every year...even though they last forever without being inspected. You can cite people for having a box in front of the electric panel. {gasp} think of the lives you will save!
After we just had our second bar fire killing hundreds of people on another continent, in just a few 20 years time or so since the Great White fire...out of only six billion people on our planet,how can anyone dismiss this?
Here's another idea...
sit in the barn and collect your too big play checks while playing cards and waiting for an alarm, until your 20 years are up and then retire with your pensions that the kids can pay for. If we want you we will call you, otherwise stay the #$%# out of our houses!
Mr. Randall, have you ever heard the term "political suicide"?
The bottom line if you haven't figured it out is the mayor and two council members are business owners and didn't like inspections ( they are above the law) the mayor is so Nieve it's almost comical firefighters not doing inspections is unheard of across the country. Yet he has no clue cause he's to busy to research the issue. Then he bad mouths an article from firehouse which the author Of the firehouse article John Salka has more common sence in his foot then the mayor does in his whole body. The city has a huge liability on their hands now and I hope if something happens those council members and mayor are held accountable.
Kinda funny that all the comments in this blog are anynomous. How many are from you, Jeff Smith, or other council members Mr Mayor? The only person I have ever heard bitch about Firefighters not living in the city is JEFF SMITH. Well guess what Jeffy, It's not a requirement and MORE CITY FIREFIGHTERS LIVE IN THE CITY THAN ANY OTHER CITY DEPARTMENT. And by the way, the CITY got rid of the seperate civil service list for city residents a few years ago so whose fault is that? I'm pretty sure that no one paid Firehouse magazine to write that article. Anyone can see that this is just plain stupid. Oh and by the way, FIRE DEPARMENT INSPECTIONS DONT CREATE ANY OVERTIME, BUT THE RECENT CHANGE DOES! You are wasting my tax dollars and making a fool of yourself! Close a fire station and layoff the entire Department then watch how fast new construction comes to a halt in the City. That little fire in someones kitchen will turn into an inferno that consumes the whole block while we wait for the volunteers to show up. I pay higher taxes to be protected by professionals that are on call 24/7 for a reason. If you think the majority of City residents share your opinion then you are dead wrong. If anyone is commiting political suicide it is you Mr. Mayor and you too Mr. Smith.
On the matter of inspections, I received a letter from the codes office informing me of a pending inspection. I called and made an appointment and two firefghters assigned to the codes department came over and did the inspection.
I was there for the visit and was able to answer any questions the inspectors had.
How is any of that a problem ?
After living in the city for well over fifty years you learn not to critisize the fire or police departments. If you do you will be a target and you will be punished.Funny I always thought the mafia were the ones to fear, all along it was those who are paid to protect and serve us.
If you have 80 highly trained fireman that can do inspections while on duty at no additional cost to keep public and themselves safe why would you not utilize that tool not sure where are lawmakers come up with this stuff our city is being steered in the wrong direction.
Kinda funny that all the comments in this blog are anynomous.Says you, as you spell "anynomous" wrong anonymously.
No one bitched about firefighters not living in the city. What I did was suggest a pathway for you to get your self-centered way on the useless inspections and any other stupid rules you want to pass too. I would prefer that all firefighters live outside of the city so non of you selfish bastards can vote.
I am comically Nieve and I admit it cause I have no comma sence and I'm to busy to learn to spel
Signed: ~ a union firefighter
The 2 Jeff's, Dumb and Dumber just not sure who's who yet....
Sub out the fire protection to Guilfoyle or equivalent! You never hear the ambulance drivers bragging or talking about all the lives they are saving, or complaining because they want more overtime...er um more safety inspections.
The inspections were done on duty there has never been any overtime for inspections but the new policy if the firefighters find a hazard they have to call in a code official on who comes in on overtime.
Hey 12:23 Fire is dispatched(heavy rescue) when Guilfoyle is called, We have to help with the patient, The COW should have a ambulance service.
The inspections were done on duty there has never been any overtime for inspections but the new policy if the firefighters find a hazard they have to call in a code official on who comes in on overtime.
Wow. Have some respect! These guys work nights, weekends and holidays. I know they "signed up for it" but it's because they love the job. They'll be the first ones to DRAAAAGGG your sorry ass out of a burning building. They also assist Guilfoyle on high priority EMS calls, so YES..they will be giving you CPR, even as your oblivious, sorry ass lays there...hating them. Geez. What a damned shame this city has become. You should be ashamed of yourselves. God bless ALL of our firefighters, paid and unpaid. They are a blessing!
Firemen deserve no respect lately. First they act like a bunch of Nancy boys and advocate a first responder law. How gay is that?
Now they want overtime to do inspections and act like it saves lives.
They won't be dragging me or mine out of any burning buildings. More likely I will be saving one of their a$$es by using my defensive driving skills. Too bad I wasn't driving that school bus they hit on State street a couple years back, that no one was ticked for. I would have known city fire doesn't follow emergency vehicle law so I would have swerved to avoid them.
I know they love the sound of sirens but someone should tell them the law does not require they blare them from the moment they are dispatched to a toilet leaking on an outlet, until the moment they arrive on the scene.
Just thought i would throw this definition out there so you can understand some of these comments better....
MOUTHBREATHER:A person who breathes loudly through there mouth,someone who lacks enough intelligence to breathe through their nose, someone who is ignorant to the social courtesies of public movement, consequently they stifle the mobility of thinking humans by becoming an obstacle which must be negotiated. They can often be identified by their despondent facial expressions and wide open mouths.
Dont worry though police, fire, and EMS will help you if you are a mouthbreather too.
At least Mr. Randall has the b@lls to attach his name to what he says- I'm of the opinion that 90%+ of the anonymous comments on this thread that are in support of council's decision are actually being posted by council members themselves, and I DARE the people who posted them to prove me wrong by giving their name and taking credit for their post. But that isn't their style... They like to do things covertly, and reprimand people who DO speak out against them. Furthermore, Jeff Graham says people who are part of the "management team" shouldn't be discussing it in the wrong forum... You mean your blog mayor Graham? Who started the discussion? Oh, that's right... YOU DID!
If the inspections were done while they were on duty, how would they respond to a fire? Did they come to the inspections with all their gear on, while driving a quarter million dollar fire truck? And if so, wouldn't that put them too far away from some homes?
I for one, am not buying the crap the fire guys are shoveling.
There seems to be an overwhelming sense of ignorance when it comes to what the fire department actually does. All of these inspections were done during business hours and did not generate any overtime by fire department personel. Now when there is a code issue after business hours the codes department people get called in on overtime. Must be the city tax payers like to pay more and get less.
Inspections WERE done on duty- firefighters would load all if their firefighting gear onto their trucks, and if they received a call while inspecting, they would stop what they were doing and respond to the call. As far as being too far away as the poster from 1:27 said, this is also not true. The city has 3 fire coverage areas- the North side is assigned to station 3, the South side East of the square and Washington St is assigned to station 2, and the South side West of the square and Washington St was given to station 1. The companies would only inspect their area. So unless you can tell which part of your area the fire was about to happen in, one part of your area is as good as another. I even remember being CLOSER to calls BECAUSE we were out inspecting- with a small (could've been bigger if we didn't hit it when we did) room and contents fire on North Orchard St. We responded from a block away because it was almost 4:00, and we were returning to the station when the call came in. And anyone who doesn't believe the firefighters can ask the local businesses (the ones not owned by council members, that is) whether or not we are being honest about who was doing the inspections from '03 (when this decision was allegedly resolved) to '12 (when it was implemented by a lame duck politician on her way out the door). Mr. McWayne who flat out lied about that on the news the other night KNOWS our paperwork was used by the Code Enforcement office, and so do the business owners who used copies of our paperwork issued at the time of inspection for INSURANCE PURPOSES. You don't believe the firefighters? Fine... Just do me a favor and ask the business owners who is telling the truth.
Hey 1:27pm: Wow. Did YOU show your stupidity. The city of Watertown is the size of a SUBURB in Rochester, NY or let me bring it closer to home for you (because you're so small minded)...Syracuse, NY. I would think if they were doing inspections in any part of this HUUUUUUGE city, they'd surely be able to make it in time. Wow..travel alittle would ya??
Okay I think I get it. While out on inspections, a house was saved on Orchard street because of being seconds/minutes closer. But the opposite is not possible...of leaving the centrally located barn and straying far to one side of the coverage area, and thereby adding seconds/minutes to response times of locations in the opposite direction?
Calls in the "opposite direction" as you put it would be centrally located in the city... But to automatically assume we will ALWAYS be in the wrong place at the wrong time (as you seem to be trying to imply) is a flawed viewpoint. Just as it would be flawed to say we were ALWAYS in a better position in relation to a call solely because of inspections. I'm simply saying there are CONCRETE EXAMPLES which disprove the question of us ALWAYS being out of position to respond based on performing inspections as the poster from 1:27 implied with their question. Like I said before, unless you can PREDICT where the incident will occur, one part of a companies area is just as good as another, relatively speaking. To argue otherwise just doesn't hold water. And if you are so opposed to paid, full-time firefighters as some council members are who advocate a partial volunteer service, well... How do you think having to wait for volunteers would affect response time? Last thing I'm going to say is, this problem was CREATED by management, and the Fire Dept sees no benefit, along with a higher cost both in newly created overtime costs for code dept personnel (which were never there when firefighters did it, BECAUSE they performed this function during business hours), along with a LESSER service being provided in the sense that they inspect EVERYTHING but "Assemblies" less frequently than the fire dept did. Not only that, but THE FIRE DEPT HAD NO PART AS MAYOR GRAHAM IMPLIED WITH HIS OPENING SALVO in bringing this to the attention of Firehouse Magazine. The gentleman who wrote the article uses a search engine which picks up on keyword phrases on the Internet... Once 7-news did their report, his search engine keyed on it. But mayor Graham sure didn't miss an opportunity to slander the fire dept to the public, (never mind doing any fact checking before doing so) did he?
People, people, people! Why is everyone getting so worked up over this? The city is going to get what they want, it just takes time! Plans have already been put into motion to make cuts! First, it has started with one great leader, Jeff Smith, telling people at the Elks Club just recently that when he becomes mayor, he will be turning the fire dept. into a volunteer department! We all see how well that is working within the county and surrounding area! Second, they just hired a city manager that is not afraid to make cuts within city departments! It has already started with the fire dept. The city council just doesn't want to release this kind of info to the taxpayers! We just need to sit back and watch the events unfold! The fire dept. is just the first to be on the chopping block because its the most expensive dept. to run! By the way, when the ISO rating increases and insurance premiums climb, just remember that everyone that wants to cut public safety has only themselves to blame! Good luck Watertown!!!
Anyone believe it was a search engine that got this local story noticed by Firehouse Magazine?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
It sure is strange you try to convince us that inspections will save lives but deny that being out of the centrally located barn will not hurt coverage.
When you play defense in sports do you start in the center or hang out on one side and then brag if the ball happens to come your way but shrug your shoulders if the ball goes to the opposite side?
Most sensible people would be playing from the center, thus ensuring a relatively equal but effective response time to a threat from any direction. Or maybe you don't play sports 'cus your too fat?
Most sensible people would not have to resort to calling people fat or any other insult to get their point across. I bet you could not pass the agility test!
So by your rationale, the police officers who go on mobile patrol in the city and leave their station are out of position to answer calls in the other direction? Same principle. Maybe you should call them fat and stupid as well. And all you have to do is contact Mr. Salka if you don't believe me as to how he obtained his information. But you aren't really interested in that, are you?
6:33- Your sports analogy would also make more sense if fires occurrences were pre-determined like the placement of the football pre-snap (I'm assuming you meant football with your center of the field statement). But unfortunately, unless they are arson, when it comes to fire nobody knows where the "ball will be placed on the field" to use your own analogy. So again, when a company is within it's own area, 1 spot is (relatively speaking) as good as another. Which is ALSO why we have a 3 station system, because these companies can effectively manage these areas. If you are saying we need MORE stations, I'm all for that.
And here is the 1st paragraph of Mr. Salka's blog where he states himself where and how he first learned of this situation:
The Fire Scene
Retired FDNY Battalion Chief John Salka will take a candid look at news and events impacting the fire service in this blog in the weeks between his monthly column 'The Fire Scene' in Firehouse magazine.
Stopping Inspections? Insanity In Watertown
By John J. Salka, Jr. - Friday February 1, 2013
I was reading a few news stories online when I came across a very interesting and disturbing situation. Without knowing all of the details other than what appeared in the newspaper story, it appears as though the city of Watertown, NY, has ordered their fire department to stop inspecting buildings . I'm not quite sure what administrative or political situation behind the scenes caused this...
The rest of Mr. Salka's blog can be found on firehouse.com under the "blog" link at the top of the page for anyone interested in this. So, no... The WFD did not go to Firehouse with this.
Mr. Mayor, why don't you just finally come clean and tell everyone what you and council's REAL motive is here! You are looking to make cuts and reduce the size of the fire dept.! There is no shame in telling the truth! What kind of leader are you? This is the kind of poor management skills and unprofessionalism I expect to see from Jeff Smith after watching all of his whining and crying like a little child he does when he doesn't get his way and his comments about the fire dept. at the Elk's Club just recently , but you, I have lost every ounce of respect for you and every uninformed decision you have made recently! It is sad to see you reduce yourself to such a poor leader now!! The city council as a whole has become so unprofessional in just about every type of city business that has come across council's desks! There is no longer a respectable council person holding a seat in Watertown!
Geez, imagine this, another person far from Watertown also agrees with Chief Salka.
http://statter911.com/2013/02/07/john-salka-gets-under-skin-of-watertown-ny-mayor-firehouse-com-post-called-towns-building-inspection-policy-insane/
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