The revocation of pension credits to eleven employees of the local IDA is a complicated issue dating back over a decade. Local economic development entities cropped up and have really functioned as government entities and the employees were hired as such. The actual payroll arrangements were through the Jefferson County Industrial Development Agency, and more recently have been defined as leased employees.
There are a couple of issues. One is what the Comptroller has ruled that these agencies are not eligible for participation in the State Retirement System. There is a body of legal opinion saying they are, as they have to comply will all the reporting and oversight rules of local governments. However, it's widely thought the Comptroller did not want a bunch of new entities in the system and has ruled accordingly. The ruling unfortunately collides with the lives of 11 people.
All that being said, the employees involved will likely take issue with the terms of their hiring and the clear representation that they are public employees. In short, you shouldn't need a $400 an hour lawyer when you take a job. That's going to be the difficult issue as employees explore their options relating to the agencies involved.
If sustained, there are lots of questions. What happens to employee contributions under Tier VI ? What happends to employer contributions over the years. ?
This is a tough one to unravel and there will likely be many lawyers in the hunt before its all done.
In the meantime, this is an issue that is unsettling to the agencies involved. Whether this arrangement was correct in the first place is an issue to be debated, but the people involved deserve better than the Comproller's protracted probe has given them.
One other resolution would be legislative, although its not clear that would be considered.
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42 comments:
Now here is what the labor department is supposed to be for! Dishonest abusive employers...in this case the State of New York!
How many free shirts did they provide while we are at it?
This doesn’t pass the smell test.
Why wasn’t this brought up sooner? Why now?
Try to imagine how these people must feel after years of hard work and dedication only to have the rug pulled out from under them.
I find it next to impossible to believe that NYS wasn’t monitoring the necessary paperwork that oversees and guides its own retirement process…
Then again.
According to the newspaper article, The Donald asked for an opinion in 1989, they were told The employees were NOT eligeble for their inclusion into the state pension fund, So why the problem? Someone did it anyway, this is just pension reform, and what does an Ag Specialist do anyway?
It was OK when the Renzis lost their pension credits but not now.
"It was OK when the Renzis lost their pension credits but not now."
Apples and Oranges?
This is not ok, put yourself in there shoes, years of work so you would have retirement one day and then BAM...gone. Everyone should stand up for this garbage the State is pulling. They paid in for all those years, Ny state took their money and sent them annual benefit statements and their employeer provided them retirement in the best managed retirement system and now they have nothing. You are right this smells bad. How would you compensate these employees who cannot go back in time and start a retirement fund that would have provided the same future values as the state retirement...where are the 99%,s to help these employees get back what has been stolen from them.
They should sue Don Alexander and the people that told them they were in the retirement system when he knew better. That is where the blame belongs.
Hey 735 did you read the paper? They were told(JCIDA) NOT TO INCLUDE employees in the umbrella agencies they control this was in 1989, these jobs are political anyway, what does Jay do anyway?
The IDA and the other "Alphabet" agencies were an important component in the 'growing up' of the greater Watertown area. The professionals who worked for years should NOT have their retirement compromised. Just think - they could have worked in a low level union job and be safe and sound in retirement. It smells very bad!
8:32 then why were they accepted into the retirement system, why did they pay in all those years, why did majority of them become vested only to have their future and the future of their family stolen from them. Alexander is not to blame but these people need to be taken care of. I can not even imagine what they must be going through knowing all they did was get up and work for all those years. SAD.
What is sad is there are actually people that think they, the employees did something wrong.
I'm with 9:09. The system does lend itself to theft. And how many times have we read about school districts that employed lawyers who worked four hours a year and got retirement credit. But this situation just doesn't sound right.
Look i'm all for reform BUT this is fundamentally WRONG . If you want to FREEZE their defined pension benefits AS OF THE NEW BUDGET CYCLE and require them to be part of a defined contribution plan FINE .
BUT under no circumstance should honest , working people who did their jobs and were deemed satisfactory on evaluation be punished or discriminated against .
Just freeze the defined benefit at this point and do not penalize them
Hey 11:01 They WERE TOLD NOT TO ENROLL THERE EMPLOYEES INTO THE nys RETIREMENT SYSTEM. The Board exsists to fund board members businesses, just go through the list and see who got lower than market loans. Shut it down along with Maggies. The opinion was dated 1989................ So to bad.
6:15pm the employees were not told that, in fact listen to what they are saying. They paid into the system like they were suppose to do, they recevied retirement statements, most of them were vested and had fully funded their retirement after meeting the ten year requirement, so it is not to bad you arrogant.......they are in the cross hairs for no reason they are civilians in a political war and they should be made whole again. In the words of Billy Jean Fair is Fair!
I agree, fair is fair. Well said.
Make The Donald pay their retirement,These folks are the well-connected types, they'll do OK.
The employees are well connected? Did you read the names of the employees? I only have heard of two of there names, these seem to be just regular hardworking folks.
You appear to have it in for the one you refer to as the Donald...jealously or envy.
Many of Mr. Alexanders activities over the years have been very questionable. This one seems the worst yet. As the WDT article stated most CEOs or EDs would end up in court, fined or in prison for such actions. The DA should be filing charges against Mr. Alexander. This has the same odd "backroom deal" aura as when his wife was made ED of Family Connseling Services where he also sits on the Board of Directors. There are many people such as Mr. Alexander who need to retire from business and not-for-profit activities in the North Country. They do much more harm then good.
I would think that if they DO NOT take the oath of office like a state/Federal/local employee, then they are not government/public employees in the sense that most of us think of public or government employees with all the benefits and stuff that public/government employees enjoy and earn; unless I am missing something here?
You are missing a lot. You donot have to take the oath of office to qualify for NY State retirement, you are just typing to hear yourself talk...also backroom deal? I highly doubt the employees were ever in the back room trying to figure out ways of getting retirement from the state.
Anonymous 6:11 ...
New York State Public Officers Law Section 78 requires all members, officers and employees of state agencies to also file a certificate with the New York Department of State acknowledging receipt of a copy of certain provisions of the New York State Public Officers Law and agreeing to conform to such provisions.
Reference is here regarding: Oath/Affirmation of State Employees and Public Officers
It would be nice if you researched things before blasting me... FYI.
There ate exemptions to that requirements, so don't get so excited chosen one...
The path through the forest is nit always so clean cut.
Hey 1108 you hit it on the head, The one I like is he owns a paper mill, is on the board of JCIDA the Tax$$$$$$$$$$ cant flow into the death trap of a mill fast enough. Then Time to sell it oh well more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ into it to secure the sale. Hey Knowlton Bros. did the same thing, As dishonest as the day is long.
8:27 I am not following your logic, this has nothing to do with the employees who's life has been turned upside down...they have nothing to do with your dislike for Alexander, the IDA or Knowltons.
He is not on the board of the JCIDA, he is an employee.
These people took jobs on the premise they were in this system. Their recourse is to sue their employer.
The lawyers who created this all work for the IDA, so the agrieved workers need their own counsel.
It's that simple.
I was a state employee. Retired with no issues. No oath ever took place. The checks have been good, so far. Dan, do your realize just how screwed up and dishonest and corrupt state government is? If you did, you might lose some of your basic love of all things government related.
Hey 918 youre right it doesnt but if they were told in 1989(The Donald) then why didnt they tell someone? I'm pointing out how crooked the whole JCIDA situation is. The arguement is with the Donald. Sue him.
1989 has nothing to do with this current situation, the retirement system has safeguards to prevent things like this from occurring I have trouble understanding how this was ok for almost 20 years and then its not? It is political, and I agree fair is fair.
Yes it does, they were told not to enroll any employees under their umbrella into the pension system.
You keep saying they were told, please come clean who was told? Because news flash not one of the agencies were told THAT! The reference to a letter in 1989 has nothing to do with this current situation, and if you know more say it instead of using anecdotal comments.
“Yes it does, they were told not to enroll any employees under their umbrella into the pension system.”
That may be, but it still begs the question… how did this go unnoticed by NYS for so many years?
Hey 750 a former Attorney was retired from the Watertown School District was drawing a pension from the district, then when the Renzi pension flap surfaced he lost his pension, No tears were shed for him, what exactly does an Ag Coordinator do anyway?
Okay 10:16 PM; despite the fact that you’re unable to answer the question and you are mixing apples and oranges… if it will make you feel any better, let’s all shed a tear for Renzi…
Ready… Boo ‘efin Hoo.
Again, how did this go unnoticed by NYS for so many years?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Focus!
Newz Flash The employees are getting there money back, the crisis is over, maybe now we can find out what an Ag Coordinator does.
"...maybe now we can find out what an Ag Coordinator does."
Still irrelevant...
They are getting back there money that has lost all future value, are you really that ignorant, or are you just that cold? There money will never be worth what they had in the NY State retirement once they hit ten years they had fully funded their retirement and did not have to payin anymore. Also they will be taxed on the money the state gives them back so they will be getting screwed again...if it was me I would be concerned.
He does a lot more than you will ever know...why? Because you are not in the farming or agricultural industry. So let your sarcastic question go unanswered because it doesn't warrant any real response. Good luck to the employees. FAIR IS FAIR, now I am going to have to watch The Legend of Billie Jean movie.
Its not if youre paying and wonder what his function is, Political Pat. Job?
Their appealing the ruling (JCIDA) This means we get to spend more on Lawyers, more wasted $$$$$$$$$$$$$
Wasted money? So you are saying they shouldn't defend their employees or their actions as an agency? Did you ever think maybe what the Comptroller has determined is factual wrong and because of that they have to fight it. So a waste of money... I think not.
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